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	<title>Comments on: Response to Lori</title>
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		<title>By: erin</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator>erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-279</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the compliment, Jeanie. :) *big hugs*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the compliment, Jeanie. <img src='http://idlemusings.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  *big hugs*</p>
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		<title>By: Jeanie</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-275</guid>
		<description>I think we need to clarify the two types of body fat necessary for normal functioning: essential and storage. &quot;Essential fat is required for the body&#039;s hormone and immune systems to function properly. Storage fat is used as fuel for the body in time of need. Essential fat is stored in the bone marrow, heart, lungs, liver, spleen, kidneys, intestines, muscles and other organs. This fat is biologically important for child bearing and other hormone related functioning. Women carry more than four times as much essential fat as men. Essential fat should account for at least 10 to 12 percent of a woman&#039;s total weight… lower levels may impair her health. In addition to essential fat, women have varying amounts of storage fat. This is the fat that we gain or lose as our weight changes. Storage fat amounts to about 15 percent of an untrained woman&#039;s total weight.&quot;  The combined total of essential fat and storage fat puts the ideal body fat measurement at around 25-27% for women on average.

To say that &quot;women need to maintain over 10% body fat to assure fertility and hormonal balance... However, over 20% body fat can decrease your fertility and send your hormones out of balance&quot; is extremely misleading and potentially harmful to a woman’s health.  When I represented the provincial hockey team as an elite level athlete at the women’s Canadian Nationals in 1999, my body fat measurement was 11-12%.  I stopped menstruating.  My body stopped functioning normally.  To have 10-20% body fat is to be on the potentially dangerous low-end of maintaining what your body needs to function normally.

&quot;Health experts emphasize that any body fat standards should allow for wide differences in inherited body types and changes that may be normal as we age. [The] accepted standard states that women should aim for a range of 19 to 35 percent body fat, while adult men strive for 8 to 25 percent. Athletes have slightly lower ranges, but going below 5 percent fat in men, or 16 percent fat in women, poses health risks and doesn’t increase performance.&quot;

I’m a size 6.  I haven’t worked out regularly for the past 3 years.  My sister-in-law is a size 16-20.  She plays hockey twice a week, goes to the gym regularly, has run marathons, and is very health conscious about her diet.  She will never be a size 6.

Additionally, to argue that society and the media are two different things is also misleading.  See Marshall McLuhan’s &quot;Understanding Media,&quot; in which he demonstrates that a medium is &quot;any extension of ourselves;&quot; or &quot;The Medium is the Message,&quot; which explains that any change in our societal or cultural conditions indicates the presence of a new message, that is, the effects of a new medium.  The two are entirely interconnected and interdependent.  While &quot;society, from primitive cultures to the readers of men’s magazines historically and traditionally are attracted to the &#039;hourglass&#039; or a 0.7 hip to waist ratio,&quot; those same men’s magazines publish derogatory articles such as this one from askmen.com titled &quot;6 Ways To Tell Your Girl To Lose Some Weight&quot; which lists everything from lying to her to insulting her &#039;overweight&#039; friends: http://ca.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/144b_dating_advice.html

According to all accepted measurements of body fat that I know of, I am within the &quot;normal&quot; range.  I hate my body because I don’t meet the ideal promoted by the media/society.  I highly respect and admire Erin for her body acceptance and believe we should encourage women and girls to embrace a more realistic and personal view of what is healthy and beautiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we need to clarify the two types of body fat necessary for normal functioning: essential and storage. &#8220;Essential fat is required for the body&#8217;s hormone and immune systems to function properly. Storage fat is used as fuel for the body in time of need. Essential fat is stored in the bone marrow, heart, lungs, liver, spleen, kidneys, intestines, muscles and other organs. This fat is biologically important for child bearing and other hormone related functioning. Women carry more than four times as much essential fat as men. Essential fat should account for at least 10 to 12 percent of a woman&#8217;s total weight… lower levels may impair her health. In addition to essential fat, women have varying amounts of storage fat. This is the fat that we gain or lose as our weight changes. Storage fat amounts to about 15 percent of an untrained woman&#8217;s total weight.&#8221;  The combined total of essential fat and storage fat puts the ideal body fat measurement at around 25-27% for women on average.</p>
<p>To say that &#8220;women need to maintain over 10% body fat to assure fertility and hormonal balance&#8230; However, over 20% body fat can decrease your fertility and send your hormones out of balance&#8221; is extremely misleading and potentially harmful to a woman’s health.  When I represented the provincial hockey team as an elite level athlete at the women’s Canadian Nationals in 1999, my body fat measurement was 11-12%.  I stopped menstruating.  My body stopped functioning normally.  To have 10-20% body fat is to be on the potentially dangerous low-end of maintaining what your body needs to function normally.</p>
<p>&#8220;Health experts emphasize that any body fat standards should allow for wide differences in inherited body types and changes that may be normal as we age. [The] accepted standard states that women should aim for a range of 19 to 35 percent body fat, while adult men strive for 8 to 25 percent. Athletes have slightly lower ranges, but going below 5 percent fat in men, or 16 percent fat in women, poses health risks and doesn’t increase performance.&#8221;</p>
<p>I’m a size 6.  I haven’t worked out regularly for the past 3 years.  My sister-in-law is a size 16-20.  She plays hockey twice a week, goes to the gym regularly, has run marathons, and is very health conscious about her diet.  She will never be a size 6.</p>
<p>Additionally, to argue that society and the media are two different things is also misleading.  See Marshall McLuhan’s &#8220;Understanding Media,&#8221; in which he demonstrates that a medium is &#8220;any extension of ourselves;&#8221; or &#8220;The Medium is the Message,&#8221; which explains that any change in our societal or cultural conditions indicates the presence of a new message, that is, the effects of a new medium.  The two are entirely interconnected and interdependent.  While &#8220;society, from primitive cultures to the readers of men’s magazines historically and traditionally are attracted to the &#8216;hourglass&#8217; or a 0.7 hip to waist ratio,&#8221; those same men’s magazines publish derogatory articles such as this one from askmen.com titled &#8220;6 Ways To Tell Your Girl To Lose Some Weight&#8221; which lists everything from lying to her to insulting her &#8216;overweight&#8217; friends: <a href="http://ca.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/144b_dating_advice.html" rel="nofollow">http://ca.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/144b_dating_advice.html</a></p>
<p>According to all accepted measurements of body fat that I know of, I am within the &#8220;normal&#8221; range.  I hate my body because I don’t meet the ideal promoted by the media/society.  I highly respect and admire Erin for her body acceptance and believe we should encourage women and girls to embrace a more realistic and personal view of what is healthy and beautiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Buffpuff</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-274</link>
		<dc:creator>Buffpuff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-274</guid>
		<description>Lori, I&#039;m afraid you blew any credibility you had with regard to not being a concern troll when you started throwing insults and nominating Violent Acres and Dan Savage to lend substance to your anti FA stance.

And as for this:-

&lt;i&gt;Society, from primitive cultures to the readers of men’s magazines historically and traditionally are attracted to the “hourglass” or a 0.7 hip to waist ratio&lt;/i&gt;. 

Ever seen the Venus of Willendorf? There are plenty more ancient fertility goddesses in a similar mould and they bear very little resemblance to the current men&#039;s magazine ideal. Even the hourglass-shaped ones, (such as those featured in Indian temples), have the kind of assets that would have your oh-so-esteemed doctor reaching for the the calipers and the smelling salts. Give it a bleeding rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lori, I&#8217;m afraid you blew any credibility you had with regard to not being a concern troll when you started throwing insults and nominating Violent Acres and Dan Savage to lend substance to your anti FA stance.</p>
<p>And as for this:-</p>
<p><i>Society, from primitive cultures to the readers of men’s magazines historically and traditionally are attracted to the “hourglass” or a 0.7 hip to waist ratio</i>. </p>
<p>Ever seen the Venus of Willendorf? There are plenty more ancient fertility goddesses in a similar mould and they bear very little resemblance to the current men&#8217;s magazine ideal. Even the hourglass-shaped ones, (such as those featured in Indian temples), have the kind of assets that would have your oh-so-esteemed doctor reaching for the the calipers and the smelling salts. Give it a bleeding rest.</p>
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		<title>By: erin</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-273</link>
		<dc:creator>erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-273</guid>
		<description>Thanks for dropping by, Sarah. Welcome. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for dropping by, Sarah. Welcome. <img src='http://idlemusings.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-271</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-271</guid>
		<description>Oh, and Erin - great post! There is not much you can do when you argue with a fat bigot, but I think you did it with grace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and Erin &#8211; great post! There is not much you can do when you argue with a fat bigot, but I think you did it with grace.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-270</guid>
		<description>Lori, the two &quot;sources&quot; you cited are two of the most hateful on the web when it comes to fat people.

Your true colors are showing, and they are ugly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lori, the two &#8220;sources&#8221; you cited are two of the most hateful on the web when it comes to fat people.</p>
<p>Your true colors are showing, and they are ugly.</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-265</guid>
		<description>I eat &quot;like a fat person&quot;. :)

mmm, mcdonalds. 

And... I&#039;m still going to complain when it hurts when I run. It&#039;s my own damn fault, but hey, LOTS of things in my life are my own damn fault, but I&#039;m going to complain about them anyway. Why should packing on a few pounds be any different?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I eat &#8220;like a fat person&#8221;. <img src='http://idlemusings.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>mmm, mcdonalds. </p>
<p>And&#8230; I&#8217;m still going to complain when it hurts when I run. It&#8217;s my own damn fault, but hey, LOTS of things in my life are my own damn fault, but I&#8217;m going to complain about them anyway. Why should packing on a few pounds be any different?</p>
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		<title>By: erin</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 02:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-262</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; know what you meant because I know you. 

But it&#039;s not just semantics for me, and I can&#039;t let a phrase like that go, either here in my own little space on the web or in real life. It came out sounding hateful and bigoted and I will and do call out anyone who does such in my hearing. (Seriously, ask my brother how many times I&#039;ve jumped all over him for using the phrase &quot;That&#039;s so gay!&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I</i> know what you meant because I know you. </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not just semantics for me, and I can&#8217;t let a phrase like that go, either here in my own little space on the web or in real life. It came out sounding hateful and bigoted and I will and do call out anyone who does such in my hearing. (Seriously, ask my brother how many times I&#8217;ve jumped all over him for using the phrase &#8220;That&#8217;s so gay!&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Yvonne</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Yvonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 01:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-261</guid>
		<description>Yes, you are correct in that my statement to &quot;eat like a fat person&quot; does come off wrong.  I mean &quot;overeat&quot; and don&#039;t play semantics with me on it...you know what i mean.  NO ONE should be eating an entire chicken by themselves in one sitting unless they are a pro-athlete and need the fuel.

I think what it comes down to for me is the &quot;complaining&quot; part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, you are correct in that my statement to &#8220;eat like a fat person&#8221; does come off wrong.  I mean &#8220;overeat&#8221; and don&#8217;t play semantics with me on it&#8230;you know what i mean.  NO ONE should be eating an entire chicken by themselves in one sitting unless they are a pro-athlete and need the fuel.</p>
<p>I think what it comes down to for me is the &#8220;complaining&#8221; part.</p>
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		<title>By: erin</title>
		<link>http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/comment-page-1/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator>erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 01:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://idlemusings.ca/2008/03/01/response-to-lori/#comment-260</guid>
		<description>Yvonne, it sounds to me like you are separating the “good fatties” from the “bad fatties” and making a moral judgement on them. I do not believe that anyone has the right to pass such judgement, because &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;everyone has the right to be treated with dignity and respect.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; Also, most of the time we don’t have all the information. I’ll give you an example: someone who is overweight, sedentary, smokes, drinks, and occasionally uses illicit drugs. Sure sounds like a “bad fattie”, right? But then add in a medical condition that you cannot tell the person has just from looking at them, and suddenly the picture changes. Add in genetics and the picture changes again.

Also, “eating like a fat person” is an extremely insulting and ignorant thing to say. Most fat people eat like anyone else. And there are lots of thin people out there who have disordered eating and follow eating patterns that I’m guessing you would call “eating like a fat person”. The only difference is that you can’t tell by looking at them because they won the genetics lottery.

I would also add that even if that friend of yours had changed her eating patterns, she probably wouldn&#039;t have lost that much weight. It is possible to eat your way above your set point and possible to starve yourself below your set point, but generally not by too much. I&#039;m a case-in-point: I starved myself for a year, lost 13 lbs in the first 2 months and then plateaued for the other 10 months I was dieting, and as soon as I started eating normally again, I gained it all back. I&#039;m right back to where I was before starting WW in November 2006 because my set point happens to be around the 175 lbs mark. If I ate 15,000 calories every day I could possibly hit 200 lbs but guaranteed that as soon as I went back to eating normally, I&#039;d end up around 175 again. If your friend truly was an overeater then she most likely had eaten her way above her set point. That in no way implies that if she learned healthy eating habits that she would have been able to get to a weight that society deems socially acceptable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yvonne, it sounds to me like you are separating the “good fatties” from the “bad fatties” and making a moral judgement on them. I do not believe that anyone has the right to pass such judgement, because <i><b>everyone has the right to be treated with dignity and respect.</b></i> Also, most of the time we don’t have all the information. I’ll give you an example: someone who is overweight, sedentary, smokes, drinks, and occasionally uses illicit drugs. Sure sounds like a “bad fattie”, right? But then add in a medical condition that you cannot tell the person has just from looking at them, and suddenly the picture changes. Add in genetics and the picture changes again.</p>
<p>Also, “eating like a fat person” is an extremely insulting and ignorant thing to say. Most fat people eat like anyone else. And there are lots of thin people out there who have disordered eating and follow eating patterns that I’m guessing you would call “eating like a fat person”. The only difference is that you can’t tell by looking at them because they won the genetics lottery.</p>
<p>I would also add that even if that friend of yours had changed her eating patterns, she probably wouldn&#8217;t have lost that much weight. It is possible to eat your way above your set point and possible to starve yourself below your set point, but generally not by too much. I&#8217;m a case-in-point: I starved myself for a year, lost 13 lbs in the first 2 months and then plateaued for the other 10 months I was dieting, and as soon as I started eating normally again, I gained it all back. I&#8217;m right back to where I was before starting WW in November 2006 because my set point happens to be around the 175 lbs mark. If I ate 15,000 calories every day I could possibly hit 200 lbs but guaranteed that as soon as I went back to eating normally, I&#8217;d end up around 175 again. If your friend truly was an overeater then she most likely had eaten her way above her set point. That in no way implies that if she learned healthy eating habits that she would have been able to get to a weight that society deems socially acceptable.</p>
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