Like I said: Find another word. Please.

From the online Oxford English dictionary: verb 1 (of a man) force (another person) to have sexual intercourse with him against their will. 2 spoil or destroy (a place)

From the online Mirriam-Webster dictionary: 1 : an act or instance of robbing or despoiling or carrying away a person by force 2 : unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent 3 : an outrageous violation

The actual definition of the word does not have to include physical force. I understand your concerns regarding the watering down of the word. However, I’m using it in a valid way. “An outrageous violation” sums up what I mean quite well. If a man, a man I am in a relationship with and who professes to love me, pressures me non-stop to have sex, not stopping until I say yes, even though I do not want to, I think that is a pretty outrageous violation of my rights as a person. I should have the freedom to say no, and have that be the end of it.

Of course, this is a feminist issue, and we already know that we disagree on that stance, so that may be why you seem to be comfortable taking the blame* in these situations and I see it as an entrenched problem in our society.

*I’m saying this based on this line in your first comment: And in the cases where I didn’t, that was 100% MY issue for not being more firm. If I can’t say no, then yes, that IS my fault…

I think we have a big, BIG disagreement on what constitutes freely given consent.

If their life or livelihood is at stake (ie, the gun to your head argument) then they’re not capable of giving consent. If their mental status is seriously altered, or they’re underage, or otherwise incapable of understanding what they’re consenting to, it’s not consent.

Giving in because you’re tired of arguing IS consent.

Admittedly, the line of consent is fuzzy (heck, we spent a whole day in my EMR class on what’s considered consent, albeit for a slightly different topic) and there are grey areas… but “I want to save my relationship” and “I’m being held down against my will” aren’t even in the same zip code, and again, as someone who’s been in the “held down against my will” category, I have a near visceral reaction to the thought that someone saying “OK, fine, whatever, let’s have sex if that’ll make you happy” is the same thing. That… god, there are no words for how horrifying that concept is to me.

Until you’ve virtually crawled home, bruised and broken with their laughter still ringing in your ears … and not having any idea how to stop it from happening again, don’t even THINK to tell me they’re the same thing.

The word “rape” has been watered down so much that it barely means anything anymore. It doesn’t need to be watered down any more.

I disagree with the concept that all women are victims by default, and we have no personal responsibility to take care of ourselves. You might be consenting for the wrong reasons, but you’re still consenting.

Don’t get me wrong, being pressured into sex is still wrong, but don’t call it rape. It’s an insulting comparison to anyone who HAS been raped.

Marmot, you said: I agree that it’s not cool to be pressured into having sex, but if you still retain the right to say no, I think you’re talking about a different thing… (Emphasis mine)

And my point is, if one is not freely giving consent, then it is not a freely made choice. The patriarchy in our society puts women in a situation where consent is not always freely given.

If a woman consents to sex, and still has the power to choose, I don’t consider it rape. Now, it gets more blurry if she’s in a situation where afraid for her safety, or she’s economically dependent on a man and has no resources to turn to – if the power differential becomes that extreme, I think of it as a nonconsent situation. But what you’re describing isn’t a power differential of that magnitude.

I get quite upset when I read these sorts of arguments, because as a rape survivor, I feel it trivialises rape. I agree that it’s not cool to be pressured into having sex, but if you still retain the right to say no, I think you’re talking about a different thing – not necessarily an insignificant thing either, but not rape.

I’ve been cajoled into sex that I ended up enjoying, and I’ve been cajoled into sex that I didn’t. And in the cases where I didn’t, that was 100% MY issue for not being more firm. If I can’t say no, then yes, that IS my fault, and you cannot, simply *can not* try to ruin someones life by calling it rape after something you consented to.

Nobody should say yes to sex they don’t want. And yes, it’s fucking brutal that many of us have done it, for whatever reason. But if we’re consenting, for whatever reason, it’s still consent. That’s the very definition of “not rape”.

Rape is a very, VERY emotionally charged word. And as someone who HAS been pinned down and forced, I am GROSSLY offended that anyone would compare the two.

Again — it’s not cool, and it shouldn’t happen as much as it does… but find another word for it, because that’s not rape.